On November 18, shockwaves spread across the Connectional AME Church when the Rev. Dr. Jamal H. Bryant announced to his congregation that he would be leaving Empowerment Temple after founding and leading the Baltimore, Maryland-based mega-church for 18 years. Later, it was revealed that Dr. Bryant had been called to serve as the pastor for New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in Atlanta, Georgia, the former pulpit of deceased Bishop Eddie Long. The Christian Recorder interviewed Dr. Bryant to discuss his future status with the AME Church, this unique ministry opportunity, and reflections on the status of AME Church ministry. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
TCR: Reverend Bryant, again, thank you for taking the time to speak with us today at The Christian Recorder. We wanted to ask a few questions about the latest development in your ministry. First, are you still AME?
Jamal Bryant: For the rest of my life.
TCR: Okay. So, what does that mean? How does that work?
JB: We’ve had several instances of pastors being on loan. I’m super—I don’t know if I’m supernumerary or superannuated. I’m one of the two of those but I will remain in the Baltimore Conference and answer the roll.
TCR: Okay. According to the Discipline, the supernumerary, if you choose supernumerary that means you can be on loan for two years before going back to the annual conference.
JB: That’s correct.
TCR: Have you discussed this with Bishop Davis of the 2nd Episcopal District?
JB: Yeah, I’ve discussed it with the Bishop the week before I announced it to my church. [See Editor’s Note at end of article].
TCR: You had spoken with the Bishop a week before you were leaving but you hadn’t told your congregation yet and you had indicated you wanted to be a supernumerary. Correct?
JB: Yes.
TCR: Is this the first time that you had considered leaving the AME Church?
JB: Ever in life.
TCR: Really?
JB: Ever. The only other time that I thought about it is when I started Empowerment. It was not going to be AME. Two weeks before I opened, my father [Retired Bishop John R. Bryant] flew from LA to Baltimore and had a candid conversation with me and said, “Every piece of clothes you ever wore, the AME Church bought you. Every morsel of food you ever ate, the AME Church provided. Every degree you have, the Church has paid for.” He said, “I understand that you want to do something innovative and creative but give the AME Church a chance before you leave.” He said, “I’m going to ask that you give the AME Church one year and if they stop you from being creative or innovative or cutting edge, I won’t stop you but don’t leave without giving the Church an opportunity.” That was 18 years ago and the church has never stopped anything that I’ve ever attempted to do in ministry.
TCR: Why did you decide to leave now?
JB: I really felt like my season was up where it is that I was. The way I live, the average itinerant elder has only been in charge for five to seven years. I started Empowerment when I was 28. I’m now 47 and going through different phases in life where I just thought I needed to press the refresh button. I wasn’t looking to leave but I just knew that I had hit a wall. The church is doing well and I have absolutely no reason to leave. My church is not on the decline. The last six years, maybe seven, we’ve led the Baltimore Conference in accessions and conversions.
TCR: Going back to taking the supernumerary status, there are pastors who’ve gone on loan for two years at a time but we’ve never had a pastor of your stature go to occupy a pulpit of this stature and I’m sure you are expected to be at New Birth for quite a span of time. So, this is something new for the Church. What has your reaction been from particularly the AME family, the people across Facebook, Instagram, social media, calls you’ve gotten—what have you felt from the Church?
JB: I think everybody is just in shock and amazement that I’m making this leap of faith and this is a complete faith move. Even Baptists are calling me saying, “Are you sure?” [Laughs] So, it’s really been an awe-inspiring moment.
TCR: So, what do you anticipate your relationship will be with the AMEs in the Sixth Episcopal District in Georgia?
JB: Well, I’m going to join one of the local churches under watch care and I will be active in whatever it is that they’re doing as well as be active in the Atlanta-North Georgia Annual Conference. What a lot of people don’t know is that Bishop Long’s church pulled out of the Full Gospel Baptist Convention. They really are independent and just have Baptist in the name. So, I plan on putting our young people in the Christian Education Conference and doing all kinds of things because I think you need to be connected to something. As a footnote, Mrs. Long, the widow of Bishop Long’s father is a retired Presiding Elder in the Sixth District.
TCR: Yet, the church is under the covering of Bishop Neil Ellis, so will you be joining the Gospel United Fellowship?
JB: Yeah, no, they are independent. He has served as an advisor. I don’t know whether you know it, he and Bishop Long were very close friends so they used him and Bishop Bronner, Dale Bronner, as spiritual advisors to the church. So, the church has not affiliated itself with his fellowship or denomination.
TCR: Interesting. In the V103 interview, you made a comment saying, “I’m a Baptist preacher now. I need to get a three-piece black suit.” It was interesting hearing that comment juxtaposed with you saying, “I’m still AME and I’m third generation.” So, you’re navigating these two worlds.
JB: Yeah, no, I really said that in jest as you very well know. Nobody got more black suits than AME. [Laughs] On Facebook Live and my Periscope the night before Thanksgiving, I talked about my commitment to the AME Church and my intention to stay viable and active.
TCR: Among a lot of our younger preachers, they’re saying, “Jamal Bryant has left. This means something.” What does this mean to the Church? What does this mean to our voice? How should the AME Church interpret you taking up this post at New Birth because you’re saying, “I’m not really leaving. I’m just going on for the opportunity.
JB: Right. You know, one of the things I wanted to be very intentional of is I know the influence that I have on young clergy. I didn’t want to walk out the door kicking over the desk. So, I’m not leaving in protest. Nobody has done anything to me. I’ve been afforded incredible opportunities. If any of them come to me for advisement, I’m going to tell them to stay here because I don’t think that there’s a greater church than the AME Church.
TCR: What is your vision for New Birth over these next five to 10 years? During Bishop Long’s funeral, Mrs. Long commented that she wanted to see the balconies filled again.
JB: Yeah, well not just to fill the church but to fill the people. Atlanta is the epicenter of the civil rights movement. There was not an active, viable congregational voice in social justice. We want New Birth to be able to occupy that space. I’m also inspired because New Birth is the largest black church landowner in America, 273 acres, most of which are undeveloped. I plan on doing a lot of what I was rolling out in Baltimore in terms of turning New Birth green, doing solar projects. In terms of doing the stuff for ex-offenders and down the road, hopefully, do an all-black male boarding school to be a college pipeline to really circumnavigate the prison pipeline for at-risk young people. So, there’s a whole lot that I want to do with all of the resources that are at my fingertips but really just have to be maximized. New Birth is the only church, black or white, that’s ever won an Emmy Award. They have a TV studio that has not been used for six years. I want to open it back up and really cultivate my relationships with the Word Network.
TCR: Reflecting on your previous appointment—your baby—you’ve built Empowerment Temple. Have you and Bishop Davis talked about a successor? What are some things you’re looking for or you would hope to see in your successor and what your successor could do because as you said, you left them in a good place and a good footing. What happens next?
JB: I would like Bishop Davis to consider somebody with solid family life. For the past nine years, I’ve operated as a single pastor who’s divorced. I know what is that missing integer for having the presence of a strong first lady and family. I think that would be advantageous to our congregation. As I said, I’m now 47 so I wanted somebody younger than me who could be there to stir up hope for the future really. I didn’t want anybody coming in to run for bishop. I want somebody who’s going to be there to really dig in and take the church to the next level.
TCR: How much of Empowerment was Jamal Bryant? How much of Empowerment is Empowerment beyond the Word Network? Will that television access continue with the new pastor or is that with you solely? Can you help bridge that gap?
JB: I’m going to help bridge that gap. Here’s the reality. Because it’s my baby, I want to see it excel. So I’m not taking any of my staff to Atlanta. Not a security [member], not an administrator, not a secretary because I want the next pastor to have everything that they need to succeed. All of my local television contracts in Baltimore to North Carolina, which comprises the 2nd Episcopal District, are with Empowerment Temple.
We have a solid internet base for Empowerment Temple that’s separate from me. We average somewhere in the orbit of 15,000 viewers a Sunday. I made a covenant with my leader that whenever was the first Sunday of the new pastor of Empowerment, I won’t even stream from New Birth because I want all the attention to go to Empowerment Temple. I’m very committed to seeing whoever it is that Bishop Davis appoints excel and do well.
TCR: What are your thoughts on the AMEs thinking of ministry differently because this is a different opportunity for ministry? What are some thoughts you can share that the AME Church perhaps can learn from this experience for young clergy and even laypersons who are engaged in ministry and outreach?
JB: Oh, I hope several things will happen. The AME Church, to be relevant, has to really do research on what we do about church planting. I don’t think that we do enough of that. Secondly, I hope that this opens a much larger dialogue about promoting young preachers that we would disavow this whole notion, you’ve got to pay your dues and we’re not going to let you up until you’re in your 50s. Really? You know, I was leading my Conference by 34 and hope that other young preachers will be blessed with that opportunity and that’s why I really am praying that Bishop Davis will give a young pastor an opportunity.
TCR: So, speaking of planning, tell a little bit about the New Birth Network. Is that still in existence or how is that working?
JB: I do not know. I meet with all those networkers in January. I’m not interested in becoming a bishop. I will speak to them; and I’m okay with a fellowship but I’m not looking for nobody to bring me a diadem there. I’m fine where I am.
TCR: And you’re not trying to get anyone to give you a Torah either?
JB: No. No. Don’t lift up my chair. We’re not doing any of that.
TCR: In closing, is there anything, in general, you’d like to say to the AME Church, the Church that birthed your grandfather, your father, your mother, your sister, you? What would you like to say to the Connectional church?
JB: I absolutely love the Church of Richard and Sarah Allen and that I hope that the Church will not see this move as a betrayal or abandonment but a different door, and I trust, and it may seem strange and unorthodox, but that’s how God has used me in my ministry. But I’m going to be at the Annual Conference. I’m going to be at the Quadrennial. I will assuredly be at the General Conference and I plan on remaining active. God will write the next chapter but I plan on being there.
Editor’s Note: TCR received a statement from Bishop James L. Davis, Presiding Prelate of the 2nd Episcopal District. Here is an excerpt.
Dr. Bryant’s opportunity to serve one of the largest Black churches in the nation comes as a compliment
to the AME Church. Dr. Bryant’s ministry journey at Empowerment Temple AME Church, his vision,
dreams, creativity, and leadership were supported unconditionally by the AME Church. It is encouraging to know that the world is looking to the AME Church to produce leaders that will appropriately respond to the problems in our larger society. As Dr. Bryant leaves a community of faith called Empowerment Temple African Methodist Episcopal Church in Baltimore, MD, and transitions away from Empowerment Temple to become full-time pastor of the historic New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in Lithonia, GA, we can never say thank you enough for all you have done. We are prayerfully leaning on the Holy Spirit to guide us in our deliberations on the one who will come, serve and guide Empowerment Temple AME Church as it moves upward and onward in the name of Jesus for such a time as we are experiencing in our communities, our nation, and our world.
The full statement can be downloaded here.
